Ryan McNeil
“Try a little tenderness…”
Someone suggested that to me last week where podcasting is concerned. I had to smile at how perfectly it expressed something I’ve always felt, but struggled to articulate. I had to smile even more when I could feel the inspiration of those words washing over me…like a hot shower over aching muscles.
The scene was Podcamp 2012 at Ryerson University in Toronto. The “Un-Conference” was about blogging, podcasting, and all things social media. I met a few nice people, learned a lot of great things I hope to implement, and attended a lot of informative sessions. The one that might stick with the most came at the end of the first day, when my attention span was running dangerously low. It was then that I joined a somewhat sparse gathering, and listened to Anthony Marco give a presentation called Podcasting With Soul: Try a Little Tenderness.
I want to be completely clear that this is his thesis, not mine (though believe me, I wish it was mine). His idea was that podcasts are like music, and we gravitate towards what we do because some intangible within the structure speaks to us. He used the analogy of a song, and how different people can like different versions of the same song – sometimes the original, sometimes a cover. Something within one particular version latches on to us…and it becomes the version we reach for.
Anthony suggested that the intangible in music that speaks to us should be present in podcasting. That, quite simply, podcasting should feel like this:
This brought an even bigger smile to my face – and not because Anthony paraphrased a running feature on this site. I had to smile because he’d just summarized what I unwittingly look for. It’s this feeling that I want to come through my headphones, and it’s certainly the feeling that I want to convey through my mic.
As a listener, I’ve consumed a great number of podcasts over the last three years. There have been comings and goings in that time; some have been professional, and some have been passionate people out for a laugh. The common denominators have been energy and joy. The shows I listen to first and the shows I listen to often seem to truly love what they’re doing. They might not love what they’re talking about, or might have to try a little harder when real life gets tough, but the love of conversation is always audible in their voice. They are talking to one another while knowingly talking to their audience too. These podcasters aren’t “a source” for me – most of what they discuss I could easily find elsewhere, and find faster. I don’t turn to them for information; I turn to them for inspiration.
Listening to these conversations, I feel the way I do when I hear the opening chords of “Baba O Riley” by The Who. That excitement doesn’t come from technical audio proficiency, nor does it even come from factual accuracy. It comes from knowing I’m about to listen to people discuss the “how”, instead of the “what” or “why”.It comes from the energy the people I’m listening to exude – whether they know I listen to them or not. They can be talking about movies, music, food, or politics, and do it all in a way befitting Otis and his tenderness.
As for my work behind a mic, listening to Anthony reminded why I do it and what I hope to bring most to anyone who cares to tune in: passion.
In every show I listen to, I hear something I don’t have. I hear people smarter, more eloquent, and a lot of people who are funnier. Behind the scenes even, the actual nuts and bolts of creating these shows involves a bit of work, and indeed there are details of that I’m just learning (or sometimes completely ignoring). However, what I all have in common with every show I’m drawn to isn’t a chance to be heard, but just a chance to speak. What I know I can achieve every time that red light turns on, is that my guests and I will make the most of our time on the soapbox. We’re not entirely sure if anyone is listening, but that won’t stop us from doing the talking.
That’s what ramps me up to yammer on without knowing how many will hear me. That’s what leads me to find more and more people to join the conversation. It’s what I try to tap into at home sitting at my desk, or out in the world recording the happenings into an iPhone. We live in a world where whatever I want to say has the possibility to cross borders and reach an audience like never before. How can I not get jacked up thinking about who might hear me? People I’ve never met and might never meet are interested in what I have to say.
You best believe I’m going to feed off that and say what I have to say with heart.
I’m no expert where podcasting is concerned – being around all those other tech-savvy folk reminded me of that. My shows have a limited reach and probably mean more to me than they do to any listener. What works for me as a host and as a listener could run completely counter to what works for the next host and listener.
No matter my credentials, I truly believe that Anthony is right. When he explained that it’s not so much “content is king” as it is “creator-shaped content” that transcends, I found myself agreeing whole-heartedly. It’s the reason I’m drawn to a Jeff Buckley version of a Leonard Cohen song. It’s the reason why I tune in and draw inspiration for every single podcast I listen to. And it’s why there just might be a small place for me and my podcast in this increasingly crowded internet.
Interesting…. I’ve always said that with the internet how it is today it’s not always what your saying but rather that YOU are saying it that brings people here. I’m no wikipedia or any CNN and I’m glad that I’m not. Sometimes I worry if anyone is listening to my podcast (and sometimes month to month I’d consider whether I should keep doing it). But at the end of the day the heavy difficult aspects of it (editing/organizing/etc) all work out whenever I do get an email/tweet from someone (like yourself) saying they enjoyed it.
I’m highly critical of my own show continually wondering what I can do to make it better/more interesting and most times I honestly can’t come up with an idea that I can do well mainly because I’m a medium level recording guy. I know what equipment will give me optimal output but I also know that there’s no way under the sun I’m throwing that level of cash without a real business plan (which I’ve never intended for my site).
I agree that the #1 thing I look for in shows is that joy and energy. Whenever I hear a podcast and they’re trying so hard to sound intelligent more than the enthusiasm of love for this thing that they’re discussing it doesn’t always work. The only other thing to suck me in is the love of hearing interesting people discuss something (like interview based shows such as Kevin Pollak’s Chat Show & Nerdist) that I find fascinating.
You’re show however (If I’m being candid) at times teeters on both of these things, and I think that stems from your different guest of the week. Because (as you’ve said before) you don’t always know what you’re going to get in the guest roulette that you play whenever you invite an interesting blogger on that doesn’t quite work in audio form. Who knows maybe I was that for you :P.
Anyways that’s my thoughts and I hope that they’re at all coherent… moving on to another blog this AM while I pretend to do work.
Yeah – there’s a slight unpredictability to my show that comes not only with not knowing the guest very well sometimes, but having a guest I *do* know, but not knowing what will happen when we roll.
I could avoid that by bringing in a permanent co-host, or at least drawing from a specific talent pool…but while that would curb the downside of the unpredictability, it would also eliminate the happy accidents.
So I’ll stick with it and hope for the best.
As for your show, few shows out there make me smile as often as you three amigos do.
All I can do is to nodd. Couldn’t agree more. It’s the passion you want. If people are passionate and if the song they’re singing has a resonance in you, things will click. Of course not everyone will click will every podcast. Sometimes I see people praising podcasts that leave me completely cold. Not my kind of song. Other times I recommend my favorite podcasts to others and it turns out they just can’t understand what I’m so crazy about.
Anyway: in the case of you and me I’d dare say we have a good match. 🙂
I’m glad you got some inspiration to keep doing what you’re doing.
You nailed it Jessica – what speaks volumes to one listener leaves another one cold.
As for your talents behind a mic, if you ever think of starting your own show, I’ll be amongst your most devoted listeners.
What a great post! I couldn’t agree more – I know that whenever I talk to anybody about film they always say “you’re so passionate!”… I never know if thats a way of saying that I sound like I know what I’m saying, but in fact I might not. Like an excited kid in a candy store – rather than an informed opinion. That then links in with my desperation to know film on a much more academic level – passion + educated opinion = job? paid for book-commission? radio-presenter? I don’t know… something good though.
The LAMB community is a great start in terms of listeners and finding people who, to use your analogy, may like the same song as you – but so many sites have podcasts now and I know only too well how much work is required to do this justice: editing, planning, preparing, time-management, etc. Depending on your success can also inform you if its the best medium to discuss cinema on. Since I have not been comitted to a podcast, I think my writing has improved and I can manage my time a little better (though obviously, I will be available for a certain podcast this summer…) but I’d be wary to simply say that anything goes – refine, develop, improve… thats what its all about. Being passionate, theoretically, should be a given (Hell, none of us get paid for this… yet!)
Well I can settle one thing for you: Hearing “You’re so passionate” is always a good thing. I think it’s the key ingredient that separates the enthusiasts from the nerds.
(Nothing against nerds)
Indeed being passionate should be a given, but there was something to this presentation that underlined the joy of it all. Even if one is doing it as a way to get things off their chest…with no professional aspirations whatsoever…there should be some excitement in putting those thoughts “out there”.
I don’t know why, but every time you do one of these personal kinds of posts I always want to do them myself. But then they start sounding like self-obsessed rambles from a confused child, haha.
Anyway, as I have only been on the LAMBcast, I can’t really call myself an expert on podcasting – still a rookie. But I do end up listening to quite a few, and find myself agreeing, or wholeheartedly disagreeing with what is being said. What strikes me most, though, is the passion put into them, and the sound of people talking merrily about movies. Sure, reading about them is cool, but listening to people is even better.
P.S. I’m still having the malware issues with the site…I know it is not going to harm my computer but the noise of my anti-virus warning scares me every time. I don’t know what’s happening…
Do it: Write one yourself.
Even if it sounds to you to be self-obsessed, it probably won’t sound that way to those of us who read your words. It’s what makes your space unique – it’s yours. Nobody else will be instrospective in the same way you are. So go for it…you might be surprised who else has had similar thoughts or feelings!
On the malware side of things, I *think* I got that figured out, but you might want to clear your cache to be sure. Just so I can test it on my end, what browser are you using? (And are you reading via Mac or PC?)
I think its time for the Kiwi Cast!!!! =)
I second the motion! Stevee – get a fellow Kiwi film enthusiast on board and start the audio dispatches!
Haha, I couldn’t do a Kiwi Cast – especially since I won’t have any time once the school production (which I’m directing 😀 ) starts up. And plus, nobody would want to listen to me! Haha.
RE: Malware problem. I cleared my cache, and it is still giving me warnings. I’m using Google Chrome on a PC.
Sucks bout the malware problem, especially since I use Chrome on a PC at work all the time and I never face such hiccups. Oh well.
Make the Kiwicast happen, even if your episodes are only fifteen minutes (especially if your shows are only fifteen minutes! God knows podcasting could use some brevity). I promise there are a lot of us out here that would love to hear your take.
I enjoyed reading this, Ryan. I think you definitely are thinking along the right line of podcasting for the opportunity to talk, and about something you’re passionate about more or less, than for the desire to gain tons of listeners. The same idea applies to blogging, too, as I’m sure you must already know.
For me, the opportunity to get to write about something I love and am passionate about it such a great gift. And it’s even better knowing that other people get to read what I write and be able to discuss it with me. But like you said, at the end of the day, my writing will probably mean more to me than it will to the few who will read it. And that’s OK! It’s an opportunity to express myself and to talk about something I’m excited and passionate about.
And for the record – I’ve listened to a few film discussion podcasts here and there, and by far, yours seems to rise about the ones I’ve listened to. It appears well-organized, includes popular tunes, and the banter is fun to listen to.
There’s a really dumb and fluffy movie that I dare not mention by name. in the film there is a blogger whose readership a fellow character questions. Without skipping a beat, the blogger quips back:
“It doesn’t matter if it is read, what matters is that it was written”
I’ve carried that as my mantra for a long time now, and it carried over to my podcast too. (I still opperate as if I have a listenership of six).
As writers and speakers, I think the unexpected bonus to focusing our passion is that it widens out the net of who my read or hear our words. Everybody and their brother is on Facebook or Twitter declaring how thankful they are it’s Friday. Few people they don’t personally know will ever know that or care. By wanting to fuel the conversation about a topic – any topic – you suddenly open the door to that many more people hearing your thoughts on the matter.
Thanks for the compliment. I’ll try to keep up the level of popularity and fun.
Nailed it. Ryan’s right – you can tell the shows that are doing it for the paycheck or because they want attention or whatever. The shows that stick out immediately are the ones in which the talkers have passion about what they’re doing.
Those that are really passionate keep doing it over and over even if they think no one is listening. They do it because they WANT to. Not because it’s what’s expected these days.
Sure you want as many people to tune in as possible. But if you’re having a good time with it and if just one person is hearing you, then those of us who love this sort of thing, consider that a success – and you can tell the podcasters who feel the victory through these small bits of success and those who don’t.
What I like about that most is the way it opens the door for so many different angles. Wanna do a show where you throw the hammer down for five minutes? Go ahead! Wanna talk for three hours? We’ll listen to that too. There are literally no rules – you just need a little bit of conviction.