Ryan McNeil
Disclaimer: I feel conflicted about what I’m about to say, but felt it worth mentioning. So whether you agree or disagree with my position, please know that it did not come without careful consideration.
Today’s post was just going to be a plug, to point people towards my participation in a post about great films of The 1960’s at Movie Mezzanine. Before I go any further, there are a lot of wonderful films mentioned there by a lot of wonderful people that could make for some great viewing suggestions. Go look at the lists (full stop).
Where I find myself conflicted is what a post like this seems to represent.
I should preface this by saying that I enjoy being a very small cog in the Movie Mezzanine machine. I’ve never fully taken advantage of my role there, which is something I carry a pang of regret over but that’s another story for another day.
When the email for contributors’ list was sent out, it kept the instructions clear; create a list of your ten favorite films of the 1960’s. Not “best”, not “most influential”. Favorite. The genius of this is that it makes the exercise much more individual and arbitrary since it emphasizes preference over prestige. It’s less “these are the best” and more “these are what I like”.
But then two things happened that made the end result a bit more puzzling.
One is that the title of the post – as it has been previously for every other decade from the 1970’s to the 2000’s called the titles chosen “The Best Movies of The 1960’s”. This muddies the waters a little bit since, personally, if I’d been choosing what I believed to be the best (whatever one decides that means), I likely would have used a whole other set of criteria. Legacy…artistic merit…innovation…there are countless possibilities beyond me thinking “Which do I like more?”. What’s more, it seems as though every film-loving-outlet in the world these days produces “Best Lists” at any junction they can these days. What would make a reader pay this particular one any more attention than all those others?
By flying the flag of “Our Favorite”, the site could at least rally readers around the tastes of the avengers the site has assembled. By going back to “the best”, not only does it disagree with the original question, but in many ways it becomes “just another list”.
The second thing that happened is not a new occurrence. It was something I noticed during the previous entry for the series dedicated to the films of The 1970’s. In short, some of the contributors seem to be going so far off-book, that it makes me wonder their intentions and wonder if the instructions were unclear.
Let’s assume that they followed the mission and listed off their favorites. When I think about “favorites” I think about the old desert island situation…as in if one found oneself marooned on the island, which one film from the 1960’s would one want to have with them? If that’s the barometer, are we really supposed to believe that a film lover wants to only have THE ZAPRUDER FILM as company? Or AN AUTUMN AFTERNOON? Or LE MEPRIS? Maybe…but somehow I doubt it. If not, then it feels as though several contributors confused ‘favorite’ with ‘best’. That opens a whole other can of worms.
Specifically, that some the film-lovers asked to contribute their tens seem to be wanting to show their stripes…or swim against the current…or some other apropos metaphor. In trying to whittle down a list of all the amazing movies from the 1960’s to a mere ten, a lot of incredible films are going to be left in the ditch. From my own list, the fact that I couldn’t figure out a way get a 007 film into the ten came with much hand-wringing. To throw so many more iconic films out of the bus in favour of ones I felt were…smarter?…underrated?…higher-brow?…artier? …feels disingenuous. It feels like it eschews ‘favorites’ in favour of ‘best’.
By and large, most of the lists that were contributed do a similar thing – they pick six or seven of the same agreed-upon titans, and fill in the rest with some less-obvious personal brushstrokes (HEAD, AU HASARD BALTHAZAR, NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD, etc). Those that don’t…those whose lists are populated primarily by titles only academics would recognize (let alone have watched) seem to be trying to prove something. Their lists seem built with a self-satisfaction of even knowing these films. Their lists hold them up as the under-appreciated gems mired for too long in the shadows of PSYCHO, THE APARTMENT, and 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY.
In short, several of these tens seem dickish, pretentious, or both…and it strikes to the heart of why I hate lists these days.
I know that by writing this, I could get my knuckles rapped. I actually expect it. I can’t even say I don’t deserve it. However, I felt the topic worth discussing – both as a person who reads these sorts of posts and as one who contributed to this. This is nothing personal against those who participated, more a frustration with the specific exercise, what it brings out in film-lovers, and what better ideas could have come from this sort of collaboration.
I’ve found that putting together a list of the “best” films in any category is basically impossible. I’m not doing many lists these days, but when I did them more regularly, I tried my best to go with favorites and not what I thought was considered best. However, you aptly point out that this approach can lead to choices that just seem outlandish and designed to be unique. I feel like these rankings can be a good way to drive viewers to see more diverse films, and that’s great. The rest of it gets murky pretty quickly.
The silver lining is that the collaborative top ten that will come of this – a series of posts dedicated to the most common answers – will make for a textured list that still falls closer in line with common sense.
First, I agree that there’s an important distinction between best and favorite. You might have noticed that I only call my list of films Top 100. I don’t even qualify between best or favorite because it’s a mix of both depending on how I feel on the day I compose the list.
However, where I think I begin to depart from you some is that you appear to make the assumption (and I could be wrong so let me know) that favorite films should be factored more on entertainment and enjoyment and hence more eclectic choices from fellow critics are disingenuous to the idea of favorites. I take issue with that because I have favorites that are more artsy and eclectic.
My favorite from the ’60s is Play Time. Would I take that movie with me to a desert island? Heck yea. It might not be the film I enjoy the most from the ’60s, but it’s the one I know I find the richest upon rewatches and one that does bring me joy even if I don’t find every moment a riveting moment of escapist entertainment.
I think favorites mean different things to different people. For me, it’s more about films I want to return to the most. Most entertaining titles would be films like Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix or Scott Pilgrim vs. The World. But I’ve seen Days of Heaven, Certified Copy, and Three Colors: Blue way more times that I’ve seen those films because they’re favorites, ones I love to revisit.
While we all love films, I think some people love them for different reasons so I’m not eager to call out someone’s list of favorites as disingenuous because they might simply have a different line of reasoning and set of values from my own.
Let’s start with PLAYTIME, since you brought it up. I totally believe you when you name that as ‘top of the 60’s’, not just because of what I know of you…but also because of the pure joy that film sparks to those who watch it. It’s both innovative and entertaining, a film I’ve seen both adults and children enjoy. I don’t think it’s a fluke that the film shows up in about half a dozen lists in the post.
I don’t assume that a favorite needs to entertain. Hell, PERSONA made my ten and it’s not exactly something I’d throw on for a romp. I believe – like you point out – that a favorite should be a film one wants to return to over and over again. The films that are mentioned most on these tens are films I truly believe people want to revisit for all sorts of reasons.
It’s the outliers…the ones I can’t see people coming back to except for study…that leave me puzzled. You have to admit that there are circles of film critics that want to tell you how much better they know their subject. Critics that tell you “I know you love X, but here’s why it sucks” – or conversely “Here’s why X is an underrated masterpiece”.
It’s that brand of criticism I see on display in the tens I call out.
I checked out the lists and didn’t see any pretentiousness, only good movies. Peoples tastes differ.
You recently raved about Le Samourai. If you hadn’t seen it before these lists came out you might have seen it as an arty film included because someone was trying to prove something.
I hate to come back to one particular ten, but I have to. You say you don’t see any pretentiousness; a contributor listing The Zapruder Film in his top slot doesn’t strike you as pretentious? (To clarify, The Zapruder Film is the widely-know home-movie-footage of JFK’s assassination).
I’d love to read 700 words on why that film is the one that writer considers the best – or his favorite.
Actually scratch that; I wouldn’t.
I’m not bemoaning the inclusion of three, four, or five “arty titles”. Like you say, some of them very well might point me to some new discoveries. I’m bemoaning the lists that seem to eschew canon for a more intellectual answer. They are the contributions I see as pretentious…and there’s more than a few.
I recently tried to make a list of the 100 best films ever but it’s just so fucking hard. I often change my mind all the time. It’s never easy to do and I decided to not do it.
Now imagine trying to whittle it down to ten for a decade…
Placing a space between favorite and best is flawed for me because that is assuming your ‘best’ is not influenced by you as a person at all.
Which is impossible. Likewise I feel that when what you think of as favorite and best in any category that would be classified as subjective and they are different, you are lying to yourself at some subconscious level. Or you are trying to remove your opinion from it which is an endlessly flawed path.
I agree with just about everything you’re saying good sir. What I’m suggesting is that several members of this little collective pulled together neither the best nor their favorites, but selections that would make them look the smartest.
The only thing I have learned talking to people about movies are assumptions of any kind are always the enemy.
I’m with you on this. The Zapruder Film? WTF. I’d buy it on a “culturally significant” or “most analyzed” list or some such, but on a list where the initial question is “favorite” the choice definitely has a hipster pretense quality to it. If it’s genuinely a favorite film, then OK, but I have a hard time buying that anyone could truly call that a favorite. Imagine the tweets.
“Just re-watched the Zapruder film! Soooo good! #favoritemovies”
Yeah, I don’t think so.
Maybe different people got different questions? A hard-to-understand selection, for sure. Perhaps the choice was a bit of trolling to incite comments? Who knows? Well, someone knows, but it ain’t me!
Also: I didn’t look at the list yet, just so I could say what I wanted to say without identities clouding anything.
That’s probably the best way to roll with it.
Something that occurred to me after I write this piece is the fact that as the 1960’s were unfolding, some of the top critics of the time “missed the boat” on some pretty damned influential films. Famously, some of them viciously panned titles like THE GRADUATE, BONNIE AND CLYDE, EASY RIDER, and 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY.
Now here we are, fifty years later, and a whole new generation of critics are ignoring some of those same titles.
Hahaha, I like that way of looking at it. It’s a natural critical cycle. There will always be those that dislike certain films. For instance, I saw Lawrence of Arabia in my teens and didn’t like it, and I haven’t seen it since. I’m sure I’d enjoy it more now, but at the moment when constructing a list, it doesn’t even come up as an option to me. So perhaps these hyped classics were disappointing compared to the more obscure stuff? I don’t know.
Now I’m curious to make a list of 10 favorites of my own!
I am with you in this too. Favourites and Bests are two completely different lists based on two completely different sets of criteria. At least for me! There might be some overlaps but that’s because those films are THAT great. When I try my hand at them, I ALWAYS make it point to mention it out front that this is what I like. Someone else, almost certainly, will have something else to say.
If you ask me, I think people do try to stand out from the rest. But people have different tastes, you know. While I might frown at many of those films being in top 10 of decade, they might laugh off my list as juvenile.
The more I think back on it, the more I wish the post had given participants 100 words or so to discuss context. While everybody is free to tackle the project in whatever way they want (nothing wrong with choosing “ten game-changers” for instance), it would be handy to have a stantement to go along-with.
“100 words or so to discuss context.” I agree there. I think without the proper context it’s difficult to know the true motive. The fact, though, that the request came to you by saying ‘Favorite’ and then morphed into ‘Best’ for publishing just, in my opinion, underscores how arbitrary lists are to begin with. If the criteria isn’t necessarily specific, the results could mean anything. Anymore when I concoct a list, the lines between Favorite and Best are completely blurred. As in, when I say ‘Best Of’ what I really mean is ‘My Favorite’. And vice versa. And I’m okay with that.
I definitely agree that there is a big difference between “best” and “favorite”, one of the questions I ask everyone I talk to for my site is “What is your *favorite* superhero movie?” Because I think if I asked “best” then more often than not the answer would come back “The Dark Knight” since there isn’t as many to choose from, but that’s why I ask “favorite”.
As a side note, not to toot my own blind spot horn as I know my classic film viewing is sorely lacking, but if my Letterboxd is complete I’ve only seen 13 movies from the 60’s and most of those are kids movies.
I’d be happy to make you a 1960’s syllabus if you ever wanted.