John Cusack

Quick show of hands – who out there has noticed that I have largely stopped posting top five lists on this blog? At the risk of sounding pretentious, allow me to explain.

Permit me to discount the year-end top five, because year-end retrospectives are always encouraged. If we skip past my “Top Five 2010” films, the last top five list I posted on this site was April of last year when I rattled off my Top Five Desert Island DVD’s. But wait a moment – that one was culled as part of a blog-a-thon, so it doesn’t entirely count either! Wiping that off the board, the last top five I posted of my own volition goes all the way back to March of 2010 (The Top Five Irish Films).

And if I go deeper still, I discover that during 2010 I only posted one other top five (The Top Five Movie Kisses). So over the better part of two whole years, this space has primarily gone “Five-Free”. And no, that’s not an accident.

The podcast still keeps Top Fives as a segment, but I’m not entirely married to that either. Really, it’s only in place to foster conversation on a theme of the moment – be it tied to the feature film discussion, or something else happening in the world-at-large. I only keep it in the show as a way to touch on a variety of other titles; allowing me to hear about films I’ve never seen, and express a point of view or two on films I love.

But if someone ever put a gun to my head and said the show needed to be thirty minutes shorter…guess what goes?

I got to thinking about the nature of Top Five Lists a year or so ago when I re-read Nick Hornby’s High Fidelity. There’s a scene where Rob Gordon goes to a dinner party hosted by one of his exes, and he’s forced to spend a night with a different class of people. He isn’t so fussed about them (I can’t blame him), but as he points out the differences between himself and the group, he landed on one point that gave me pause:

“They have opinions; I have lists.”

This is not meant as a direct shot at anyone who continually makes lists, or even uses them as the backbone of how they blog…but for me, I’ve been feeling for a while now that I’ve outgrown the usefulness of top fives.

For starters, let’s think about the long life they’ve had. I’d wager my next paycheque that nobody out there can think of an original top five subject. It’s all been done, and while there’s no harm in going back over familiar ground, it feels like we keep coming back with the same entries. How many times do we need to hear that THE GODFATHER is the best mob film? Or that STAR WARS is the best Sci-Fi film? Or that THE DARK KNIGHT is the best comic book movie? We are choosing the same topics that have been chosen and re-chosen, and if we’re not, we’re coming up with topics so specific, that they’re almost laughable (“Top Five Non-Cameron Crowe Movie Soundtracks that Don’t Include The Stones…Go!”).

But what’s more, they don’t actually require us to state a true opinion or thesis.  More often than not there’s no mention of why the five chosen have been chosen above any others, and when it comes to the number one, it’s ranking as number one is never fully justified either. We cull together these lists, and try to use them as some sort of currency towards knowing a great deal about the subject at hand (“Top Five Delroy Lindo Movies…Go!”). The truth is that we’re just skimming the subject, and expressing that we know these entities exist. By and large, we’re seldom giving the subject any serious thought, and usually not presenting any original opinion.

I know that by now – if readers haven’t clicked on to something else already – that some who have read this far are screaming at they’re screen “They’re supposed to be fun, you elitist ass!”. That, obviously, I cannot argue with. If sitting around with others and rhyming off your Top Five Julia Roberts Movies That Don’t Include a Shot of Her Flopping Down on a Bed is your idea of fun – knock yourself out. But what I want to offer, is that many out there – specifically many who blog, can take the energy and thought that they’d usually put towards a top five, and instead come up with something more interesting…more original…and ultimately more “their own”.

46 Replies to “Drift Away

(Why I’ve Strayed From The Top Five Phenomenon)

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  1. Oh oh oh, does this mean I finally get to do my post “Top 5 Hatter/McNeil Posts on How Things Have Changed In The Way He Blogs and/or Perceives Blogging”!?!? Please? Pretty please with sugar on top?

    In all seriousness, I’ve pretty much gone off on the idea of lists as a form of ranking. These days I just do them when I want to talk about some actors or films I’ve been keen on lately and a list-like structure is the most streamlined format for doing so. The main reason: lists tend to inspire people not to read what you have to say. You end up getting (and in turn giving) lots of “I can’t believe you put X at #3 and Y at #1” or “I can’t believe you didn’t include Z” and not much in the way of actual discourse on the topic.

    Of course I’ve also found with lists that anything more than a 1 – 3 sentence justification and people turn off reading the reasoning entirely.

    1. Didn’t you know? My blogging habits are my own favorite subject! I almost want you to actually go through with it…

      …almost.

      You’ve summarized in 100 words what I wasted 750 trying to articulate. Lists prompt the reader to skim if they’re long, and prompt the writer to short-shift if they’re brief. I agree with you – using them as a structure isn’t such a bad move if it’s more just a way to outline a topic…but it feels like most list posts don’t use that. But hey – maybe if you stick to it, the format will catch on.

      Thanks for reading mate!

  2. Thoughtful post, and I agree with much of what you have to say here. I still make lists, of course, but I do my absolute damndest to make lists that are off the beaten path. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fail, but that’s my only goal with a Top 5/10. If I don’t feel real inspiration to do it, I won’t.

    1. The “Off the Beaten Path” bit gives me hope, but perhaps take that concept and skip the ‘list’ part… Just turn it I to a full-on post about the topic at hand.

  3. The only reason I do them is because I read that they usually generate lots of hits – indeed, one of my all-time most popular posts is a ‘top five’ list. I try to avoid ranking them, though.

    1. I’ve had that happen too, where my top five post becomes massively popular. Sorta boggles my brain since a review can take ages to get ‘just so’, but I can dire off a top five list in twenty minutes.

      I vote we become more demanding – as writers and as readers

    2. I do a list a month, and I will participate in list-based blog-a-thons, but I don’t actually rank them (or don’t intend to). Maybe I should be listing them alphabetically or something instead, or exchange my monthly list into something a little more… lengthy. But like Rich, my LOTM page is one of my more popular pages.

  5. Top 5’s are fluff pieces – there’s no arguing that. I’ve done my best to come up with ones I haven’t seen before (Top 5 Worst Movie Roommates – is a favorite of mine).

    When I decide to do one – it’s mostly because I’ve got a little time to kill and nothing to write about – then again I’m not afraid to leave my little sliver of blog blank for a while rather than post a Top 5 I’m not happy with.

    Why worry that it has been done before? Movie blogging itself is a bit derivative. It was said in an above comment that they get lots of hits – I hope that’s not why you’d want to movie blog for the hits – but it’s true. I find instead of diving into every review on a busy day – it’s nice to see a Movie Poster Wednesday, a Top 5 Monday or a Femme Fatale Friday to have a quick read.

    [on a side note – it’d be nice to see this blog (which is rather slick) syndicated over on the Blogger site – as I do the majority of my blog reading on my phone and my phone doesn’t load this site well – that’s why I’ve yet to comment – sorry, Hatts]

    1. Perhaps worrying that something has been done before is a lesser argument. The grander point to that end is that if you’re going to put your own stamp on a topic, stamp it with authority – don’t gator-arm it with a list.

      I’m not completely opposed to them – like I say, they’re fun in conversation, at moments like year-end, and to spawn a further discussion…but they’ve become so omni-present these days that it feels like we need to treat them like an overplayed album, and just leave it on the shelf for a while.

        1. I don’t see the ‘mobile version’ on my phone… The links get crossed up and it takes a while to load – I’ll just try to get to a computer more.

  6. What a great blog post! I’m completely against the top 5 post thing. It really annoys me. We’ll do it to get hits but in reality they mean very little. Im a completist and I don’t think you can do a top 5 list unless you have considered all the options. You cant do a martin scorsese post without having watched all of martin scorseses films. You can’t do a top 5 post on delroy lindo without watching all his films. I know for me when I have watched all of a directors films then I’ll consider a top 5 post almost as a way of completing the coverage. Great post! I wrote this all on my phone so you should think yourself lucky!

    1. Needed to comment so bad, you racked up the data on the phone, eh?

      Your note about trying to compile a list without completist knowledge is a good one. – and something I hadn’t even thought of. I figured you’d have my back mate, given that none of your platforms of cinematic passion have continually kept top fives.

  7. I’ve never been too big on lists. At the Filmspotting message boards, members are encouraged to participate in a variety of ‘top 100’ lists. The ‘top 100 movies’ list is fast approaching and it’s arguably the most interesting of them all. But then again, that’s a very general list. Whenever it comes to these ‘top 5 underwater battle sequences’ or (top 5 ghost movies’ I always feel that the end result sells the movies on the list short and ignores others that should have been on. Why narrow down things so precisely anyways? Are films not flexible? Then one gets into arguments about what constitutes an underwater battle sequence or a proper ghost and bla bla bla, the fun is taken out of the endeavour.

    1. While I can get the occasional grin from Filmspotting’s top fives, I don’t think it’s an accident that they can rattle through their lists in record time. They choose far better lists than my show does and they get through ’em in a third of the time.

    1. I don’t recall if you specifically did a Delroy Lindo Top Five (but if you did…dude – why???). Wasn’t pointed at you specifically Kai – just the listmaking phenomenon in general.

    2. Delroy felt PRETTY specific! What are the odds?
      And I did it for Heather, my podcast partner, who is obsessed with Delroy Lindo and his cookies.
      Lists are what I do and I do them to have a laugh usually. I don’t take them so serious. My last list (sidekicks)put Goose at the top for singing karaoke to get Maverick laid. The text and argument and laugh are why he got number 1. I argued him there when Chewbacca is clearly the top pick when talking sidekicks. It’s all about context and admittedly I have some lists that are less than stellar and underwhelming compared to others but to say lists can’t have anything of value to say is Bullshit! Smooches! 🙂

    4. Delroy is my de-facto 90’s character actor (just ahead of David Paymer). Nice that you did a list of his work for Heather…but I’d be more interested in a post dedicated to his work.

      It’s good that you have fun doing ’em and have carved a little niche for yourself with ’em…but as someone who is more interested in the long form, I wish the internet on the whole would start to pull away from the habit.

    5. Coincidence, I guess. Well, as someone who chose not to do long form going in to this, I guess you could say I feel the same way in reverse!
      You should probably avoid Man, I Love Films on Fridays then for Top 5 day. And maybe Monday too if these feelings transfer in to Top 10s as well.
      To be honest, I think lists generate more hits in general because, in this day and age, people don’t want long form. They want information, opinion and humor in short bursts. I like to think I’m just catering to the trend! 🙂

    8. Kai, that one was specific. I see the humor in it, but don’t think it’s worth arguing with you. You love ’em, I don’t, neither of us is gonna change their minds, the end.

  9. Interesting article, in many ways the same thing can be said for the “Best Films of the Year” lists that we all do. At the end of the day, it really adds nothing to the overall film going experience. Sure we can debate whether or not Social Network should be on the list, its proper spot, etc. However it carries little significance in the grand scheme of things. It is very rare that you will find a truly unique list. I guess, at the end of the day, it comes down to personal amusement. Whatever floats each person’s boat. Again nice article, good food for thought.

    1. It doesn’t add anything though the studios do use those blog lists for quotes and to put “On over 100 Top 10 Lists” on their commercials and DVDs.

    2. Strangely, the year-end lists are something I’m alright with…because it’s summarizing something specific. It’s also encapsulating something that’s pretty broad. People like you and I often see somewhere close to 75 – 100 new films a year. So expressing the top 10% is a piece worth writing.

      If you were to put together a top ten of the summer, where you’re talking about the best ten of twenty films. That’s altogether different.

      Again though, the top five/ten/twenty of the year is a bit more to the point that “Top Five Films Starring Katherine Heigl that Don’t Involve Her Having a Freak-Out”.

  10. I’m a fan of lists when I have something to say. That said, I love Lists! I find them a lot of fun and it’s just in my nature to rank things. I can see where it can be tedious and some people just might not care what I think, but until I get tired of it like you have, I’m going to do one every now and then.

    1. (Welcome to The Matinee Max!) couldn’t help but notice something as I flipped through your site – your Sci-Fi list. On the one hand, it’s a classic list that – as I’ve mentioned – have interested me far less lately. BUT! You go the extra mile and make it something far more thoughtful by breaking it up onto individual posts…less a list, more a series.

      The only thing I wished is that you’d written more for each post. You had people coming back daily by building up to something – shoulda dazzled ’em with a great final act!

      I’ve said it already, I’m sure – I really wish people would forgo the list structure and instead just freeform on the theme.

  11. Lists of any kind are ultimately just superficial, meaningless fluff. But let’s face it, people in general love them. Lists are easily the most popular feature on AM, it’s relatively easy to get thousands of eyeballs on a list but getting a fraction of that to read a movie review or other text-heavy posts is impossible.

        1. I hear you…somewhere there’s a saying about “Everyone else jumping off a bridge” that seems apropos…but i do follow you. Sorta reminds me of BIG NIGHT – ever seen that one?

  12. This is kind of why I don’t do Top somethings rather than “My Favourite …” or “Most Interesting …” because I rarely feel that my ideas of best films coincides with my favourites. I mean I have irrational love for some films that are far from perfect and then I don’t care for some films that are indisputably some of the “best” films ever made (like The Godfather).

    I mean, what’s the criteria for best anyway? Most impactful? Most important? Most film historically important? Favourite? Technically best? Most popular (well definitely not this)?

    Yeah yeah yeah, I don’t like The Godfather.. get over it!

    🙂

    1. Anna, I want to marry you for this comment.
      First, I too find The Godfather waaay overrated which is why I have never written a Top 10 Gangster list. I just don’t even want to have that argument.
      Second, I used to do “Favorite” instead of Best / Top 10 definitive lists. At Man, I Love Films, I have resigned myself to putting “Kai’s Top 10…” beforfe all my lists so as to take ownership and then at the end of all lists I ask everybody else what their favorites are and try to encourage conversation.

      1. Right on!
        Do to the top 10, I wanna see that!
        Yeah, some people don’t get the difference and then you get the _really_ angry comments. When I did ‘My Favourite Horror Films’ the fact that I enjoy a very particular and eccentric type of horror rather than ‘the classics’. I think ‘The Classics’ lists are boring, I mean I know all these films, I know they’re considered good, but what’s great?

  13. And for me doing end-of-year lists clarifies my opinion of the movies. If I gave two films 7/10, (like I did with Limitless and the Tree of Life) the difference quality-wise, and how much I actually liked them can be huge. It kind of helps clarify my own opinion as well as possibly entertain.

    What I as a reader mostly look for in lists, is just to find films that other people thought were great, that I haven’t seen under a theme that I find interesting.

    So a thumbs up for lists from me!

    1. Good points (both comments). Isn’t it just as easy to hear about films you hadn’t come across before in longer posts though? For instance seeing so much praise in theatrical reviews for LET THE RIGHT ONE IN got me to seek it out on dvd (and become thankful that I did).

      The year-end thing is a good point though. For me, not all four-star reviews are created equal, so just because I gave both CRAZY STUPID LOVE and TREE OF LIFE four stars doesn’t make them equal. Taking a moment to compare them is a pretty handy tool. So on that, we agree.

      1. Of course, yeah. I’m just one of those list type people who likes to go to RT at the end of the year, hit Best of and check which ones I still haven’t seen! And often I find myself avoiding reviews of films I haven’t seen to keep it fresh. I’ve found that too many ideas and expectations beforehand can actually ruin a film for me.

  14. I enjoy lists as a topic of discussion, but they really need to be taken with a grain of salt. As someone stated above, most of the time people make lists without considering all options. I am too much of a completist to create “Top 5 Films by X” without seeing ALL of X’s movies. But kudos to the people who try anyway, as they usually get good discussions going, and occasionally I do find some movies mentioned that I want to see.

    1. (Welcome to The Matinee!)

      Sidebar – Wow, has this ever been a popular post…

      I too enjoy them as a topic of discussion, and even from time to time in a multimedia capacity (ie on podcasts or vlogs, though I’m teetering on pulling the feature from my own show). They foster all sorts of tangents and comparitive discussion.

      You (and Simon previously) are correct in pointing out that creating such lists seems silly when one hasn’t dug into the topic fully. As a for instance, I’ve seen people make lists of the top five Scorsese films who have never seen MEAN STREETS or TAXI DRIVER.

      These lists that we’re publishing – publishing, not just rattling off over beer one night at the bar – seem to be increasingly becoming noise, when I for one would love to find some published clarity. Looking at Total Film’s site as a for instance, one third of their slideshow headlines are lists. C’mon folks – why not try to write something that involves paragrpahs more than 2 out of 3 times.

      Again, as stated, I just wish a percentage of the posts that are lists would push a little harder and actually string together a full post on the topic.

  15. Right on, yo. Top 5 lists are the Bane of my existence (before you say anything, that is a Batman pun, because I’m reading a lot of Batman now, and also, shut up, I KNOW), and yet it’s insisted that I do something of the sort. Or whatever.

  16. good post Ryan, and I’ve never felt your site needs top five lists cos theres so much other stuff going on, but I do disagree with you somewhat.
    I think as you hint at, a Top Five list is only as good as its subject. if you can keep it varied enough i think the readers will be given something good to get their teeth into. Obviously we have the odd lame top five, but we try to get subjects that havent been done before

    1. I know you guys were clowning around with the list of lists, so do know that this post wasn’t directly pointed at y’all.

      If I had to finish off this conversation with a hope, it’d be that when people create their list posts that they would go a little further, write a little bit more about every slot on whatever list it is, and try and build to some sort of actual thesis.

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